EPISODE 15: TAKING ACTION ON WORKPLACE DISCRIMINATION

Greyson: Hello, and welcome to The SDRealness Podcast brought to you by Sales Development Revolution, where we talk with practitioners about their take on important topics in the space.

I’m Greyson Fullbright and here with me always is my co host, Alex Ellison.

Alex: How’s it going, Greyson? 

Greyson: This season’s theme for the podcast is See Action, Take Action, where we’ll dive tactically into important topics in sales development from those actually on the ground taking action every day.

And today’s topic is really important and it’s something that has come up recently in a survey that today’s guest has actually published. It’s taking action on workplace discrimination, which is I think it’s so important because – one thing to note for everyone listening – the SDR role is actually one of the more diverse roles in today’s sales profession. And yet this recent survey really highlights how prevalent discrimination is in today’s workplaces.

Joining us to discuss is Ashleigh Early. She’s an industry-leading sales coach, consultant, and a big ally in this mission to improve diversity and inclusion in the workplace and sales in general. She’s also the co-host of The Other Side of Sales Podcast, which is another amazing podcast on sales that I’d recommend everyone check out.

Ashleigh, thank you so much for joining us today to talk about such an important topic. 

Ashleigh: Thank you so much for having me and being willing to talk about this stuff. The only way we’re going to move forward is by having some tough conversations, so this is fabulous. I’m really looking forward to it. 

Alex: Awesome, yeah. And we’re so glad you can be here to have a conversation with us. To kick things off, I want to start to sort of dive into some of the stuff we found out through The State of Sales Survey you did and sort of get a better understanding of the reality of discrimination in today’s workplace.

You know, as you know, myself as a straight white male and Greyson as well, I think our privilege sort of blinds us to some of the things that are really going on. And you know, when we saw some of those numbers, some were pretty surprising to me. But, it was really interesting to see that data come out.

And so I’d love to just get your take, sort of an overview of what the current state of discrimination in the workplace is and why it’s so important for sales professionals to acknowledge it.

Ashleigh: Yeah, and it’s… that really, I mean, you hit the nail on the head with kind of why we did the survey, which was kind of… Our whole idea was, if we want to make a change, if we want to make sales really have a true worldwide culture where everybody could thrive – and I think it’s one thing to make sales very unique because it is the one profession I know of that you can show up to, put in the work, and be successful. It’s not going to be easy, there’s going to be challenges, they might have to switch companies a few times to find the place where you’re meant to be. But, anyone can thrive in this. You can have a very good living.

But the world isn’t always fair. The world isn’t always equitable. We know this. And just from our own experiences, we know that stuff happens. But there’s a problem we’ve thought between there’s a lot of research done at kind of the macro level, at the company level, stuff on strategy, stuff on activities, and how many SDRs you should have all that stuff, which is great and useful and absolutely necessary.

But, Casey and I couldn’t find really anything on the experience of being a sales rep beyond like what percentage of people hit their quota, which is like 50%. So we started thinking like, “Well if we can’t get any data around how often this stuff is happening, no wonder people who are allies and champions are having trouble going to leadership and saying this is a problem, we have to deal with it.” Because it’s, “Oh well that’s your opinion. Oh that’s anecdotal information.”

So we decided, okay. Why not? We’ll get some data! Originally it was going to be super scientific and then we realized that was really expensive. So we started with just The State of Sales Survey. So we got over 500 participants, it’s been absolutely an incredible experience. We’ve got some really good data.

But like just to start off the two things I think would be the most relevant to even your theme this season of See Action, Take Action is one: 84%, 84% of sales pros have reported witnessing or experiencing discrimination. So, not just a majority, a super majority – to put it in political terms – have witnessed or experienced discrimination in their careers.

Now we learned a lot in the survey. We’re going to dive more into when that discrimination happens, you know, how long ago was it because it’s possible some of these people who did the survey have been in sales for 30 years. It’s possible it happened 20 years ago. But that number is high enough that we’ve definitely got something going on that’s beyond the margin of error, all that stuff.

The other thing that’s really interesting is in nearly every case, the rate of experiencing discrimination – of any specific type of discrimination among a specific group, any of that – was double the rate of people who witnessed it. So, discrimination and harassment is happening twice as often as however much you are personally witnessing it. Whether that’s because people are hiding it, because it’s happening behind closed doors, we don’t know. But, we kind of, we named this the awareness gap.

Because I think this is going to be one of our biggest problems and I’ve never heard it really discussed, because until we can close that gap so that everything is seen, everything is witnessed, we can’t really expect to move the needle all that much. Because eventually it will devolve and, sadly, so many cases into a “they said, they said” situation unless you’ve got crazy data to back it up, which in most cases is very hard to do because a lot of the discrimination, harassment out there these days is not as overt as calling someone a slur or grabbing someone inappropriately. It’s a lot more subtle than that.

We have stories of people… you know, something as silly as a boss told someone, “If I could fire you and hire only Mexicans, I would.” Stuff like a woman calling into a recruiter getting hung up on, calling the recruiter back, the recruiter saying, “Are you applying for your husband?” And she said no, the recruiter hung up on her again, said, “We’re not looking at women for this role.” And I actually talked to her about that and apparently that was pretty recent.

Another manager trying to – a manager – trying to extort bra and panties sizes from a colleague about her. Like this stuff is happening. It’s happening and it’s talked about, but not nearly enough. So when you guys told me your theme was See Action, Take Action, I was really excited because I immediately thought of this awareness gap as something that we as sales pros can all be taking small steps and make a huge difference and really quickly. 

Greyson: Yeah, I completely agree. And I want to dive into kind of the See Action part versus the Take Action part. Because I think in terms of our theme, this meshes very well and I think the awareness gap is important to note.

One thing to add to it that you kind of presented as basically an additional reason why this happens is the subtleness of the discrimination and how people perceive it. And kind of going back to what Alex and myself have identified, you know, we are white males, we are very privileged. And what that means is that we see things in the workplace differently.

So if something happens that we might think of as minor – one, because we’re not involved in it, two, because we don’t have that perspective that that person or maybe that minority group has – we don’t see it as a big deal.

And I think that that is one big reason behind the awareness gap is like people need to be aware and educated about what discrimination actually is, not just what you think of discrimination, I think a lot of people…

Ashleigh: Or what you’re legally required to report. 

Greyson: Exactly! I think people love to go to extremes to try to find some sort of limit that they can accept about discrimination. But the reality is like discrimination is individual. And unfortunately, if – especially if you’re a white male – like you’re not receiving that sort of discrimination, so it’s really hard for you to make influence of where that line is.

And I think kind of going back to this awareness gap that you talked about, I think it’s kind of split into two pieces in my mind. There’s the macro piece that I think is kind of the ultimate mission behind what we’re talking about here where we need to get society and cultures in business to wholly embrace and be aware of this, not just the leadership, but but the company itself.

But, then there’s the micro-level of okay I’m a sales rep or I’m an SDR and I consider myself an ally and I want to be proactive and see and then take action on discrimination. But you need to be trained on what to look for. You also need to be trained on how to handle these situations without a, letting your personal bias get in the way because I know and I acknowledge that if I were to witness discrimination, it’s going to be different through my eyes…

Ashleigh: And that’s… I want to call you on one thing right there. You have witnessed discrimination. If 84% of sales pros have witnessed or experienced discrimination, you’ve witnessed it. You just might not have realized it. 

Greyson: Yeah, and I… and that’s crazy too because I mean, I don’t like the idea of discrimination. And I’ve always had this equality mindset where I just, I love people. And yet still, I myself have missed things and I myself have probably blatantly seen it and not understood it the way that it should be when it comes to discrimination.

So kind of moving into the second question, I wanted to get some perspectives on these two pieces of if someone is considered an ally, they want to help empower the entire sales profession, help support everyone in the workplace, what can somebody do to both help identify when discrimination is happening and then take action on it without feeling like they’re potentially risking their career to do so? 

Ashleigh: Yeah, so everything is a spectrum. So, there’s two kind of spectrums I want to talk about really quick to kind of keep in mind. One is the spectrum of severity. Pretty self-explanatory. There’s a big difference between a comment being made that makes you go, “that’s kind of peculiar,” and goes, “Mmm I don’t know if something about that feels wrong.”

There’s a difference between that and witnessing overt sexual, gender, race. orientational harassment or straight up someone saying that crazy stuff like, you know, “I don’t want to hire any F.A.Gs,” Like the number of incidences you’re having in that very severe scale are going to be very minimal and I hope you never run into them. I’m very lucky in my career, I have never run into a really severe case. I’ve only ever had little minor experiences.

The other thing… So the amount of kind of free action you get increases with the severity. If you see someone touch someone else inappropriately, you have the ability to scream it from the rooftops and be protected by law.

You know, and we’re seeing more and more of this where I mean, there have been several cases which I think is absolutely fantastic where people are out at bars – and this is not work related – but people are out at a bars and a group of people, men and women, see a woman, usually, who is absolutely inebriated, being taken away by a man. And the group will intervene and make the man prove that he is with the woman before they let him take her. He is. It’s her boyfriend or husband. It’s whatever. But society is getting a lot smarter about this sort of stuff. And I’m very, very hopeful for this upcoming generation being much more aware of the really overt stuff, not letting that happen as much anymore. 

That’s not gonna happen too much. The subtle stuff I think is what you’re going to witness a lot more and is much harder to decide when to speak up. Because again, small things, small action. The trick is – and this is something I’ve actually tried to listen and learn a lot more about is – there’s the term microaggressions. And there’s been a lot of discussion about this specifically in relation to the Black Lives Matter movement and being an anti-racist in the United States.

So, it’s… I can’t tell you exactly what to do in every situation. What I can do is tell you to think about one more spectrum, which is the spectrum of racism. It starts with kind of this idea of bias, which everybody has bias. Everybody has bias whether someone how it’s someone dresses, how someone speaks, how someone behaves, how the environment they’re in. Everybody has bias. You just have to accept that you’ve got it. 

That bias turns into action, it becomes discrimination. That discrimination becomes habitual, it becomes racism. When you’re seeing subtle actions and stuff like that, you’re right at that bias-discrimination threshold. You see things repeatedly, it’s looking more and more like it’s moving into racism in this case, but racism or any sort of -ism, racism, sexism, whatever-ism.

The further you get on that spectrum, by just the sheer number, frequency of these aggressions, the more leeway you have. The biggest thing honestly I recommend people do is – if you’re in the workplace especially – is go to the person who’s affected. Go to the perceived victim and ask if they need help. That simple.

“Hey, I heard this… This sounded like..” you know, “This made me think that… Do you need help?” If they’re wrong, they say, “Nope I don’t need help,” great! Take them at face value, walk away. If they say, “Yes I would.”  Okay great. Well let’s talk about what I could do to help.

Alex: Yeah, go ahead.

Ashleigh: So it’s never it’s never perfect. It’s never gonna be great as my dogs proved by barking in the middle of that lovely important answer. Thank you so much, boys! But just asking, “Are you okay? Can I help?” Goes a long way I think.

And as someone who had someone ask me that question and assist in one of the very rare situations where I was made to feel uncomfortable, it was the difference between me feeling uncomfortable and me feeling safe. Half a second. And I was like, “No this guy’s being really creepy. Could you keep him away from me for the rest of the night?” Done.

Alex: Yeah, and it’s so important to do because it’s… that’s really the only way you can really sort of check your biases and your privileges that we’ve talked about that sort of makeup your perspective on the world, right? You don’t really know how it’s affecting the person being discriminated against in this situation unless you go ask them.

Because you have… I have inherent biases. I have privilege. I need to check, right? Check your privileges have sort of become cliche, but you do you need to check those, understand what’s a bias and what’s objective that I’m seeing here, and then go and talk to them to see if their views align.

Because it’s their view that’s important, right? If I see it… Like maybe there’s an inappropriate joke and I go ask them and they’re like, “Oh no they’re kidding around. It was fine. We do this all the time.” Right? That’s very different than if I see an inappropriate joke, I walk up and they go, “Yeah that was really weird. I don’t like that.”

But I’m not really going to know what their answer is unless I physically take the time and go and ask them, right? 

Ashleigh: No, it’s so true. And it’s funny, you bring up jokes, because I am notorious for terrible, terrible, terrible jokes. I’m very much… My sense of humor is very much in the School of Mel Brooks and, and I’m blanking on her name, always at the red carpet and I adore who died recently.

Alex: Joan Rivers?

Ashleigh: Yes, Joan Rivers! Where the best way to make sure that you don’t the history doesn’t repeat itself is to constantly make fun of it. But it’s, again, it’s one of those things where you have to be very careful about your audience. You have to be… I’ve screwed it up. I’ve had people tell me, “Well that went too far,” and gone, “Haha, sorry.” You learn these things.

But again it really does come down to… the other thing it does come down to is educating yourself. And that’s another thing I think as white people and white allies has really come to the forefront this year is, it’s not just about going to the person and saying, “Are you okay? Do you need help? How do you feel?” Because that does require them to admit that they were hurt, which is a vulnerable situation to be in.

And if you don’t have an existing relationship that might be uncomfortable for them, they might not want to admit that they felt hurt by that. So the other thing that needs to happen is you need to make it a point to educate yourself about the cultures that you’re in or that you’re interacting with. Make it a point to learn…

A couple examples I’ve given are – women especially I think – should learn about how black hair works. Because it’s a completely different ball game from what we do and it’s something you would never know about. But I’m interacting with these women every day and they’re there’s a whole part of their day I don’t know about. And if I’m sitting here thinking, “God why does it, you know, I wonder why does her hair change every day?” It’s more curiosity than anything, but that can very easily veer into unconscious bias and learning a bit about that, like, “Oh that’s fascinating and really cool. I want to be able to swap that stuff out. It’s also expensive, but that’s really cool.”

Another example would be just even as simple as when Black Lives Matter happened, I reached out to a few of my friends and I was like, “I’ve been saying African American. Should I be saying black? Literally just realized I was using the wrong language. So it’s fascinating to do that stuff.

And part of the way I had that conversation was I went and I did the research. You know, I went online first, I didn’t put all the emotional labor on my friend. I started with okay well let me see what I can find out. And it was, ooh, okay, I think I’m doing this wrong. And then going from there.

Greyson: Yeah. I want to kind of get into the taking action bit that Alex mentioned, because I think it’s important to note that when we’re talking about helping someone who you think is experiencing discrimination, it’s not just about being there for them. But I think it’s also important to keep the action that you or you both together take in their best interest.

Because I mean I am ego-driven, blunt. You know, I’m just so outspoken. And I used to run into issues where I would see what I thought would be discrimination, whether it be more or less severe, or whether I think it’s like habitual or just bias, and I would just call it out. I would just I would just confront it. Not even think about it.

And I thought, you know, I thought I was the hero back then because look at me, I’m defending everybody. And one day someone checked me and they’re like, Dude like yeah that was kind of like screwed up what they said to me or did to me, but like you just made my life worse.”

And that made me realize like oh crap, being an ally is not just being someone out there taking action and just making moves, but you really do need to settle down and educate yourself and do the research on okay, like first of all, to the best of my ability, what was that experience like for them? And usually, the best way you can get that is by talking to them.

But then when you’re coming to help support them, if they’re willing to get vulnerable with you, if they’re willing to actually share their feelings, you need to approach it like you’re actually on their side, you know? Let them confide in you, help give advice and help guide what they think is best. I think one mistake that allies tend to make is kind of going in there and trying to just be the hero and say, “Oh well, you think that is not a problem? I think it’s a problem. So let’s take action.”

And I would say, woah, woah, woah, woah. First educate yourself, help build some empathy for what they’re going through, and then you just need to be there, whatever action that may be.

I think it’s unfortunate that we’re in a society where the reality is that not all cases of discrimination can be taken action against. I wish that were the case, but there are just so many situations out there that I believe are just impossible, and in the workplace of all places for it to happen. And so one thing that I got away from this that I really like Ashleigh is like you not only need to take action, you not only need to educate yourself, but it should all be for the best interests of that person experiencing discrimination, not for you, not for society, it’s them, it’s their story, and they should decide how it needs to be handled. 

Ashleigh: No and I think you hit the nail on the head there. This idea that… I apologize again for the dogs, this is just so how things are working with life right now, but keeping in mind that you are not the hero of their story.

You are not the hero when you witness discrimination or harassment. The person who’s the victim is. They’re the hero. You’re the sidekick. It’s your job to make sure that they feel enabled to take whatever actions they need to take. And if they ask you to do something, you’re doing it on their behalf, not because it means – obviously it’s going to make you feel a little cool – but it’s not about you taking action. It’s about them directing the action.

Because as a member of the community, as the person who’s of this minority class, they’re the only ones who can know really what’s going on. And if we – especially as honestly as white people – our history for, you know, a thousand years, is jumping in and mess things up that we don’t understand. So really taking that step back and start to rewrite that arguably bred trait in ourselves is going to be a big help.

And also it makes sure that we don’t veer and give too much ammo to the people who say, “Oh well…” you know, this is… and we captured this in our study too, people who say “Oh I’m scared to say anything because everything I say is gonna be taken as discriminatory. I’m scared to have women on my team because they’ll misinterpret what I’m saying.”

This isn’t about misinterpretation. It’s about education. If I make a joke that someone tells me is insensitive to the LGBTQ community, to a certain religion, to a certain race, and you tell me that, I will never say that joke again. Because I care, because I don’t want to do that. It’s about that education.

But it’s the person on the other side telling me. I can’t be completely reliant on them. I have to try and grow on my own. But if there was another person involved in that situation who came, he’s like, “Hey that might not be a good joke to tell,” it’s harder for me to take them seriously. It’s harder for all of us, take us take them seriously. Because what do you know? You’re not in this, who cares?

So it’s really important that the hero is the person of this minority class. We’re just the sidekick. And as a sidekick, we’re making sure everything is directed by them at their comfort level and going from there.

Now like I said, keep in mind those two spectrums, the spectrums of all the way from bias to the -ism and the spectrum from basically a slight little micro all the way to the overt. Further you get to the overt, the much easier it is to speak up and say, “No this was not okay.”

I know someone who was sexually harassed at work and she did not report it, her boss did. She didn’t have a choice. She hated him for it for a minute. But in hindsight, once she got past it, she was very grateful that she didn’t have to deal with it. She, you know… it was just kind of forced, but also because that gave her a lot of credibility when they did come to her. They already had it corroborated. She was just confirming what they already knew. And it’s one of the few cases I know where someone who was sexually harassed actually there was action taken and dealt with reasonably appropriately and reasonably swiftly.

So the spectrum matters. And the other thing too I think we haven’t talked about yet is really making sure we mention the bystander effect. Bystander effect is this thing in psychology where if you’re in a group, you’re on the street, there’s 50 of you, and one person in the crowd stabs another person in the crowd. If no one in the crowd jumps out to save the person who’s bleeding, then no one will. It’s kind of the group decides collectively without speaking, “Are we going to help this person or not?”

Sometimes all you need to break the bystander effect is one person to jump out, take off their coat, shove it on the person who’s bleeding and say, “Someone call 911. Help me save this man!” And then everybody jumps in. But if no one jumps in, nothing happens. Literally, there have been cases where people just bleed to death in front of dozens of people and the cops come in and they’ll ask, “Why didn’t you do anything?”

“I don’t know. No one else did. I thought someone else did.” So we also have to be aware that we’re not getting caught up in the bystander effect. “Oh well I don’t need to report this because five other people saw it. No one else reported it. I don’t need to go have this conversation because five other people were in the room. None of them said anything.”

Just because no one’s spoken about it, just because no one’s done anything, does not mean that you shouldn’t. And the last thing I’ll say with the bystander effect is – to Greyson’s point I think too – you’re going to get this wrong. You’re going to reach out to somebody and say, “Hey that felt… I wasn’t sure. Can I check in with you?” And they’ll be like, “Nah I’m fine. You’re really sensitive to this stuff, aren’t you? You don’t need to watch out for me. I’m fine.”

Okay! Take them at face value. Walk away! You’re gonna feel super awkward, but – I don’t know about you guys – I’d rather feel super awkward and be aware and learn something from the encounter than in the back of my head, if I didn’t go to the person who I thought was potentially a victim and correct or ask, I would then be thinking that a co-worker, a potential client, a prospect potentially is doing this behavior and it would color the rest of my relationship with them.

And I don’t want to do that either unfairly. So it’s… There’s no black and white, but it all starts with just having this frank conversation, taking some action. There’s some really good books on being an anti-racist and stuff like that because it isn’t just as simple as, “Oh I’m not a racist.” No you have to be an anti-racist. You know, they’re all over LinkedIn and Twitter and Google in 2020.

But just in the workplace, it’s as simple as just making the effort. I really think it’s as simple as – especially if you’re non leadership – it’s just make the effort. Once you get to leadership, things change. But, “Are you okay? How you feeling? Do you need anything? Can I help?” Those questions can make an impact you can’t imagine I think.

Alex: Yeah and I think overall one of the things you really just touched on is we all… Professionally, we all want to grow our careers, right? So it doesn’t make any sense that you wouldn’t want to grow as an individual, as a person too, right?

And by taking those steps, you know, maybe making an awkward interaction with your colleague, that’s a step towards growth towards understanding what your colleagues perceive as discrimination, what they’re comfortable with, and understanding really that that workplace as a whole and understanding sort of that privilege that you have or don’t have and, you know, how it relates and how it affects everyone else.

Because at the end of the day, we’re all… Everyone is an individual person with their own views on the world, our own reality really, that we look at the world through. So the only way you can find out about how other people view the world is talking to them and understanding them.

And sometimes it doesn’t even have to be the conversation, “Hey are you okay with that?” Having other conversations with someone about subjects like this outside of, you know, there being an impetus for it is also huge. This conversation we’re having right now, I’ve learned a ton just from talking to you and hopefully the people listening to it has as well.

But if you don’t take the time to – like you said – go read a book about it, go be proactive about your personal growth, when it comes to interacting with discrimination and biases, then, what direction are you heading in as a person?

So I think that’s just a really powerful thing I wanted to point out that you need to be willing to not only say, you know, you got to talk the talk and then you have to walk the walk, I guess is really what it boils down to.

Before we before we wrap up here Ashleigh, it’s been an enlightening conversation really to have. Do you have any sort of last, you know, tips, best practices, advice you’d give to, you know, a sales professional that wants to be more proactive in eliminating workplace discrimination that we haven’t already touched on?

Ashleigh: Honestly, it’s not even about discrimination. It’s just an overall sales tip, which I’ll start at the top. Like I said, I believe sales is the one career where you can come into with minimal training, minimal experience, you can make a good career, good living out of yourself with just effort. I really believe that in my soul. I believe that opportunity is not evenly distributed, but talent is.

So that means that there are… We have a lot of work to do in a lot of different areas. But I bring that up specifically because I think that one of the key skills that every brilliant sales rep that I know has that sales reps who are mediocre who struggle don’t have is their students of humanity.

To be a student of sales is to be a student of humanity. If I want to be the best salesperson I can be, that means I need to be able to sell to anyone. That means I need to be able to understand anyone. I need to be able to have that cognitive, that effective, that balanced empathy, that I have at least a taste.

And we’ll never know what it is like to be a black woman in the US. I will never know what it is like to be a member of the LGBTQ community. I can’t. I don’t pretend to. But I try to educate myself just enough that I can have a taste of it, that I can empathize. And once I can do that, selling then becomes a ton easier.

So there’s also the straight up selfish financial aspect of this of I want to go as far as I can in my career and that means I need to know how to sell that literally anyone who crosses my path. So this isn’t just a do the right thing. This is a do you want to be successful? You gotta do this work too. 

Greyson: Yeah, I love the quote that sales is about being a student of humanity because I think you make a great point there that really every component of what we’ve talked about is deeply sociological, deeply psychological. And I feel like those are like underlying kind of foundations of a lot of the soft skills that really great salespeople have.

And going beyond your skills as a seller, if you don’t know how to work with people around you and what I mean by that is, if someone or something you can’t control joins your team and can disrupt your performance, sales might not be for you.

And I think kind of to the heart of what we’ve been talking about here is discrimination in the workplace, that is like an event where we’re talking about things when a thing happens. But discrimination is often ongoing. And I think if you can’t understand how to interact with people who might be allies, people who might be minority groups, people who actually might be against the grain and maybe you need to learn how to interact with people who, you know, might be discriminatory. And yet, you know, they’re still on your team and there’s nothing you can do about it. You have to educate yourself on all three of these groups. Because whether you’re in sales or whether you’re in another profession, people exist and you can’t control your work environment unless you are the boss.

And so I think it’s very, very important to not just learn how to see and take action on discrimination, but to take a step back and really look at the workplace and say, “Why is this person acting this way? How is everyone else getting affected? How am I getting affected? And then what could improve?” I think taking that mindset will just make you a better employee and make you a better team member, regardless of the industry.

So Ashleigh thank you so much for joining us today to talk about such an important topic. And I really wish we could talk more but this might be our longest podcast episode since we launched. Where can people find more about The Other Side of Sales or get in touch with you personally if they want to learn more?

Ashleigh: Othersideofsales.com, feel free to hit me up on LinkedIn/in/ashleighearly A-S-H-L-E-I-G-H. You can also hit me up on Twitter at Ashleighatwork, at work, which is a very, very obscure Star Trek reference. But yeah, those are probably the best ways to get a hold of me.

But definitely othersideofsales.com for all the details on the survey, there is a free download, please do consider downloading it. And as we talked about the survey, the survey was sponsored financially with some incredible support from VanillaSoft, Bravado, and SalesLoft. So we always encourage you to take a look at them because those companies put their money where their mouth is when it comes to having these tough conversations and we really appreciate them for that. 

Greyson: Yeah, absolutely. And for everyone here listening, I will also include a link to that survey in the transcript for this episode, so please check it out. Every page of that survey was eye opening to me and I’m sure it will have some some insightful visibility for you into what’s going on. So, thank you so much, Ashleigh.

This has been Greyson Fullbright and Alex Ellison for the SDRealness Podcast. Until next time, SDRs, keep it real.